My Song 11 - 12:15:23, 12.01 PM
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[00:00:00] You're listening to the multi-verse podcast. Today. We talk about the DC cinematic universe. /I actually watched the Ezra Miller Flash movie. And there we go. Now, do we know, is this I haven't seen Blue Beetle. Although, I probably will if for no reason than to be able to talk to. laD John, who is utterly enamored with the Blue Beetle movie at the moment. And all product. I think, and all product as well.
But everyone else So does that mean that James Gunn's Suicide Squad is canon to James Gunn's DC Universe? I would assume so, but I don't know where it fits into this gods and monsters storyline that he is doing.
Why don't you know? No, I'm kidding. Because I don't think James Gunn knows and I've said that. James won't return my phone calls. But I take it then, I'm probably on fairly safe ground [00:01:00] to say that as far as ending the Snyder verse in terms of a dramatic way. Ezra Miller's Flash is probably the movie that does that.
Given how that movie ends, more or less. Well, I mean, you saw the end credit. Yes. He and Bear hanging out, Bear's hanging out with Aquaman. Right. So, I don't know what Aquaman does to put Because originally there was going to be a Ben Affleck Batman tie in and they took that all out. Right. Well, but the Batman move they did at the end was great.
Well, but originally that was supposed to be Keaton. That wasn't supposed to be Clooney. But when they shit canned Batgirl, pardon the kids, they killed the contracts. I mean, once again, Keaton got paid 3 million to show up and read a few lines in Batgirl. And the whole idea is that was going to springboard into our Batman Beyond, Flash, Batman Beyond.
So, when that's not going to be a thing, they brought Clooney in. They could have brought Kilmer in if he lost 100 pounds and could [00:02:00] stand up. Just to not We also can't talk right now. After Batman doesn't need to talk, he's growled. I'm so sorry. Anyone offended by this, I do apologize. We can edit that in post.
We can fix that in post as well. That's in. Somebody keep track of all, because we usually don't. Yeah, but So I don't know, I mean, it could be easily said that The way they wrapped up the flash, that could be the end of the Snyder verse or the start of the gun verse. But since you know, George Clooney is not going to be his Batman and you still had an Aquaman hanging out there.
I think it's just going to be, we're done. I mean, this, this, this, because you know, the, the, what James? When? The director. James Wan, yeah. You know, he's even like, you know, I kind of have an idea for a third one, but I know I'm not going to get to do a third Aquaman. Yeah. You know, Jason Momoa will probably get to play another character in the DC Universe.
He and Gunn seem to have developed [00:03:00] a good relationship, and if it's Lobo, I'm fine. Yeah. So you don't think he gets to be Aquaman? No. I think, I think, I think Gunn has walked in, and in some ways I get it. I've said before, I would still, I would bring Gal over. Yeah. Gal Gadot should be. And I would, but I would have also brought, you know, Henry over as Superman, but yeah, I don't be, and the only reason I say that is because how people reacted to him appearing at the end of black Adam, right?
Because of the politics behind that. Yeah. I don't think gun, I think, I don't think gun, even if he wanted to bring him could have. So. So. The Flash just introduces the multiverse, and if, and really if they're smart, they'll just treat the Snyderverse as Earth. You know, ZS. It's their Kelvin universe. And, and do another one, and once again, as we've seen the Deadpool movie coming up, they're digging up every old Fox movie.
Yes. Superhero, so. If you play your cards right and compliment James Gunn or something, you'll probably [00:04:00] get to play, I still think Ben Affleck's gonna get to play Batman again, in a small role, somewhere else, when another creator shows up. Because we brought back Toby, we brought back Andrew, and they're gonna have some Marvel Universe.
You, we seem to be very forgiving, in that realm. Yeah, we'll see. I liked Batfleck. I thought he was good. Here's what I liked about him. I liked that version of Batman. I like the, the older, I like the Dark Knight Batman being on, on screen. If they had done a Dark Knight movie, that would have been great. And, Batfleck would have been the one to do that.
Now, we kind of digressed. I was excited you saw Flash, so give, no, no, no, that's it, because now we're really, let's, let's give the audience, what did Steven think of the Flash? That's what this is all about. Yeah, but, but that's, to answer your question, I think Aquaman, Yeah, well, we'll circle back to this, because it is relevant, because we, we've seen the Snyderverse as, as it's as it's been called, [00:05:00] and everything that happens next, Because whether it was by design, or whether it was, it doesn't, I don't know, but there's a reason why we call it the Snyderverse.
Because, yeah, Zack Snyder directed Man of Steel, and he did Dawn of Justice, and he did Justice League. He didn't direct Aquaman, he didn't direct Suicide Squad. He didn't direct The Flash. But, these films featured the actors that he chose for his Justice League, um, and he chose those characters very early on.
So, I don't know if Snyder was ever positioned as being the guy who's gonna oversee the DC entertainment. DC cinematic universe, whatever, but it kind of feels that way. Hence why I think Snyderverse works. Well, we're about to enter the next year, next year. Is it year after year after well, [00:06:00] remember guns universe starts off with the animated creature commando, right?
I don't know where they are in production. Superman is 2025 Jason. Yes, that's right. So that's supposed to be the first light. But then we have the Amazon game of thrones. Right. I don't know where that squeezes in. Don't know. But, so, there will be a Gunverse. Yes. Okay. So, so they are connected because we're, I think it's safe to say we could get together for a podcast let's say maybe five years from now.
Set your dates and your calendars guys. We'll reconvene five years from now because we'll have had enough Gunverse. Product come out that we can start doing the well How does this compare with what we had under the Snyder verse thing and we can play that game more more accurately. We're gonna be saying is So this new guy that's starting up because I did not because they're good because one of others didn't know [00:07:00] how didn't allow it to flash Yeah, and and I wish I could say that's just a fun joke, but given how things have gone you have no idea There was some some News headline the other day about, uh, one of the guys that won has made a comment about them scrapping Batgirl and, of course, this Looney Tunes movie thing as being, you know, it's very, very courageous, very brave, and it's like, do me a favor.
Anyway Snyderverse, The Flash. Okay, so, I'm gonna tell you what I thought about The Flash, and you guys can tell me the same, and then we can talk about it. In the context of the larger Snyder universe. We can do both at the same time, actually. I quite enjoyed it. And I didn't think I was going to.
Because I'm not that crazy about Ezra Miller's As The Flash. That version of The Flash. But then that just kind of fits in with [00:08:00] The, kind of the problems that I've had with all the casting. I love Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman, but I have to, I don't feel that that's necessarily my Wonder Woman. I didn't necessarily feel that Affleck was my Batman, Henry Cavill's not my Superman, and so on and so forth.
So I'm, but I'm happy to watch it. It's like, my my wife was struggling with watching one of these movies once. And I, I leaned over to, I think it was, I think it was Dawn of Dawn of Justice or Dawn of Vengeance, whichever the Batman versus Superman one was. And I leaned over and I said, you've got to watch these movies and remember that you're watching Earth 2.
And she was like, oh, okay, that's fine. And then she could, she could enjoy it. That's not the definitive, that's not, you can't tell me that's the definitive Batman, you can't tell me that's the definitive Superman. So That's kind of how I've approached everything since Justice League, I think. Is to [00:09:00] say, well, this is Earth ZS, or this is the Kelvinverse, or the Snyderverse, what have you.
But I quite enjoyed it. I thought The Flash was a lot of fun. I think seeing it on the small screen some distance away from its theatrical run helped. Because I switched, it was a whim. I went out. Took the dog for a walk. Then we jumped in the car, me and the dog. Went over to Dunkin Donuts, got some donuts and coffee.
Came home, sat down and thought, Ah, sod it, I'll watch The Flash. That was all the lead in, there was no plan on this. And it just popped into my head, Ah, I'll watch The Flash. And seeing it on the small screen meant that some of the criticism about special effects didn't really concern me at all because I'm Watching it on the small screen.
It wasn't like part of the spectacle of seeing it in the cinema. It didn't bother me either. No, no. I, I know I liked it. The, The story I thought was fine. It's as [00:10:00] close to Flashpoint as I think we, we're gonna get and possibly should get. Seeing Michael Keaton brought up all kinds of nostalgic feelings.
And I liked yeah, I just, I enjoyed it. I thought, and what was nice is that it was fun, which not all the Snyder, I don't think many of the SnyderVerse films have been fun. One, and I think it's hard to call this one a true Snyder, I mean, it's in the SnyderVerse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a producer. Yes.
And, and you know, this had the, the typical, I don't know how many directors got fired and had to start over again. Because there's a couple. I don't know, according to IMDB, they've been working on this thing for over 10 years. Yeah, it got dragged out. It, it, it changed, changed direction so many times. So.
I think they should have waited. I think they should have held it for a bit. It, it, it, it goes, it goes back to, and I, I enjoy The Flash. It goes back to they don't have a plan. Mm. Once. Once they [00:11:00] ran Zach off,
they, they did. I mean, granted he, he lost his daughter stepped in, but after that he wasn't, he wasn't really allowed to play with any, and his name was on there. And he was, he was run off. I mean, they've been, they've been rudderless as far as a lead as a Kevin Feige leader. And the minute they'd rather have no runner than a runner that always points the wrong direction.
Well, that's not true, but it, The minute they announce James Gunn, they're like, Yeah, we're done. Oh, we got other movies? You sure? Really? Oh. Oh, shit. Okay, I'll, let's crank them out. Oh, Miller might be in jail? Yeah, we don't like that. Huh. Home Invasion, you said, huh? Huh. Let's add another. Should we, should we do that or do the Cyborg movie?
I don't know, he's bad mouthing the He's bad. He's pointing out all the evil that we know, but that's a whole different. Yeah. There's a lot of life lessons to take from this. Let's say that. What, what, [00:12:00] what upsets me about The Flash is I see the potential of what the rest of the universe could possibly have been with this movie.
You're acknowledging the multiverse. You're acknowledging The Justice League really is there. Look, Wonder Woman showed up to help. Yep. That was nice. And then you go, nah. Nah. It's not the, I enjoy the movie. That's a movie I can see myself watching a couple times a year. When I have nothing going on. You just put it on HBO Max, it's right there.
Or now Netflix, because Warner Brothers said, Whore all their stuff out to Netflix to make money. So you can see them on both platforms. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. I enjoyed Keaton showing back up. Yeah. Which, when I, when Allie and I went saw, the only reason I was going to see was Keaton. That's all I wanted to see.
Right. And then you made me care about Ezra's Flash. Yes. The story made me wrote that. Yeah, it did. Yeah, it does. For our age group, I showed up, I wanted to see my, my Batman. Right. Because once again, that's my, And [00:13:00] I got to see my Superman at some point, Christopher Wayne, right there. With Helen Slater. Yeah.
I got to see my Superman, Nicolas Cage. Then that would have been You know what? I would Did you see that? Nicolas Cage with the giant spider? It was a mullet. It's a nice little nod, it really is. And that's why I say sometimes we're very forgiving. That Nick Cage getting to show up to do a movie he never shot under the test footage means that someday I'm going to see Ben Affleck is old man grumpy Bruce somewhere.
It may not be, well, I want Keaton. I want Keaton as old man Bruce. But, Keaton's gonna be a hundred by the time Yes, that's true. So, you have to figure out who's your next And, you know, we don't But, like I said. That's what I'm getting amped up. But yeah, I got to see my Keaton, and then I was like, Oh shit, I actually kind of care about Are we gonna get sparkly Batman?
Or is there gonna be a different Batman than sparkly Batman? Oh, okay. Robin Hanson. Oh yeah, we're going to have another Batman. That's because we have Batman, Brave and the Bold is [00:14:00] in that story line. Patterson's Batman is allowed to be It's going to be elsewhere. Yeah, it's going to be over there. Yeah. Cause I know Gun is like, there's going to be the, the main thing and then little offshoots that get done.
And it sounds like we're going to have a Damien Wayne live action. I wish we could go back in time and get the guy that played, the actor who played Joffrey on Game of Thrones. Oh, geez, yeah. And give him the snark. That would be Yeah, actually, that would actually be a good casting. That would be a good match up.
But, like I said, for It's interesting that you said about wanting, making you care about Ezra Miller's Flash. Because, yeah, that, that is, that is the thing. Once, once you get Into the narrative of the story. I've got to give him credit. He actually, you see the progression of maturity in that character. It's easy to see it in terms of the juxtaposition with him and his younger self.
Who's very dude. [00:15:00] But I, I liked that. I, I actually felt that it was quite a sincere performance. But I have to say because if I don't say it now I'll forget again. The first, I don't know, 20 minutes of the film, I kept thinking about Back to the Future. Like, this has a real Back to the Future feel to it.
And then they start making all the Back to the Future jokes. And I was like, oh, okay, so I think that must be intentional. They meant that. They actually meant that. Which I thought was quite sweet. Although, who would have a Eric Stoltz? Marty McFly tattoo on the leg. I don't know. That's, that's very bizarre.
And the fact that it's upside down as well, that's just, okay. And but no, I enjoyed it. I thought it was, I actually thought it was a lot of fun. And yeah, Keaton, seeing Keaton as Batman again, it just sort of, Cause I remember, and we're gonna wildly digress here, but I have to, I have to go down this road.
I remember, I know, I know, right? I remember [00:16:00] when, um, they announced that Keaton was going to play Batman. Oh, I do too. And I can remember standing outside my friend Martin's house, um, so let's see, when was this? This would have been 88, so I would have been what, 15? 16? Close to that, something like that? And I remember standing outside with a bunch of my friends talking about Michael, what, Beetlejuice, the, what, the guy from Johnny Dangerously is gonna play Batman and having a discussion about all the other actors that they should've gotten instead of Michael Keaton.
Pre internet. Yeah. Who were your other actors? Who did you think that there should be? The, the only one that really comes to mind was Kurt Russell. They should've gotten Kurt Russell. Kurt Russell would've been a fantastic Batman. Alright. And, yeah, okay. agree. You know, I have, I've always had a man crush on Kurt Russell, I'm ashamed to admit it.
So I can see that. But then you actually sit in the movie [00:17:00] theater. No, I remember seeing the trailer. Because there was a TV show I think Casey Kasem might have narrated it. And it was, like, Coming Attractions. It was an American show where they would show a couple of trailers of movies coming out, and then they would do the top ten.
of that week. And they used to show it on English TV at like 3 o'clock in the morning. So I used to set my VCR to record this. And the Batman trailer was on there. And I remember taking it over to another friend's house. And we all gathered around. Parents as well. Hit play. Wow, that looks amazing. And that's when you first got the sense of, Wow, is that Michael Keaton?
I like the sneer, you know, he's doing, it's, it's not Clint Eastwood, but it's, so my issue with that one and the first of the next round of Batman movies with the Christopher Nolan, the first Christopher Nolan, um, my issue with both of those is I just [00:18:00] never felt like you saw a lot of Batman in the, so you didn't see a lot of Batman in the, in the 89 Batman He, because he is in the shadows a lot.
Oh, okay. He'll be guys, you saw more Nicholson and you saw more Michael Keaton. Right. Okay. But you don't see much actual Batman action. Okay. And even in the, the second one, you didn't see a lot of Batman. Okay. In that one. But that's what I liked about the flash. Is because, this is the first time I've seen a Michael Keaton Batman.
Where I actually got to watch Batman do Batman stuff. Yeah, no that's true. And I liked it way better. I liked it. I, but just to finish the thought. I actually didn't like Batman, the movie. I, I, the 89. As much as I thought that I would. I remember seeing, I waited a long time. And I went to see it in the movie theater by myself.
There it is on the big screen. And I thought, well it's gorgeous, and it's, well, Anton Furst's designs are fantastic, and it, whoa, it looks just dark, and [00:19:00] Nicholson is fantastic, and it's great. But I remember walking out of the theater thinking, well, it just kind of left me a bit cold. It wasn't the, I don't know, maybe, I think, that suffered from too much hype.
Could be. Because that was the summer that you could not escape. Batman, it was t shirts, and stickers, and happy meals, and it's amazing at 16 that that would bother you. Yeah, I know. I, I, I, I, yeah, I, I dig all of that. I mean, because once again, I've got all that shit sitting in my mom's house. Right. And you were, you were like do you, I don't know, it's my, you know, right?
Exactly. It was 7th grade me, watching that, and I thought it was great. Well, you're, you're also a higher mind art, I mean, I'll stop at you are, you know, you are, and it doesn't, I'm not saying that in a bad way, you know, the, the three of us sitting here together, all of our different views on that helps me re evaluate these things in a more clear picture sometimes, because there are some things that you will say about the artistic decline.
I can give a shit who built the [00:20:00] sets. I don't even, I don't even know, I don't even know his name. I don't, I don't care, I don't, I don't need to know the name of the guy that drove Michael Keaton around on the golf cart, but I bet you if I dig down, you might. Cousin Billy. Yeah, Cousin Billy. Right. I just want to see Batman up there.
We don't know who's cousin he is. Yeah, we don't. But everyone calls him Cousin Billy. But you know, you, you have a, a, like we both have some very strong historical context and knowledge in comics, but when we get into the. And you know, and you studied this stuff. So this is, you know, you went to film school, kind of, for, to learn it, so I, I appreciate what you can bring, because you'll, we talked about Robert Wise's Star Trek The Motion Picture, and you were firing off stuff there, and I was like, You know, you make me feel guilty because I think this is a crap movie, but okay, I'm listening to it.
I started to appreciate the, I just, we re watched it, it's been within the last year, maybe two. Yeah. And when I re watched it, I was like, huh, that's more of a true, like, high sci fi. Yes! Like, like true sci fi movie. It made me so happy by you saying that. It is, but I like lowbrow sci [00:21:00] fi with con blowing shit up.
Well, I do too, but that's Well, that's still the best one. Like clearly, but I used to think the first time I was like, this thing's garbage. Why is Steven eating his arm? But I do want to go back to, I do want to go back to the, but anyway, yes, I want to go back to the Batman casting because it's funny. You were talking about with your friends.
So with my, my comic book friends, just up the road with the other store, they were ready to go to Warner brothers and burn down DC comics. They were, they were not happy with this. And I, I sit there, I was at block, I was working at Blockbuster at the time. I was like, Hey. Because they're going, Mr. Mom, Beetlejuice.
I was like, have any one of y'all seen Dream Team or Clean and Sober? Right. Clean and Sober. Yeah. I said, because he plays crazy in Dream Team and he plays intense. I was like, that, isn't that Batman? Yeah. I mean, that would, isn't that what? And at the time, I couldn't come up. I remember there was a guy in the store who wanted Piers Bronson.
to be Batman. Nope. That was his big, big, big, big [00:22:00] thing. And I know he was in the running for it. Okay. At one point. Wouldn't surprise me. But you know, in the same way that five, 1500 other people might've been in the running for it too. Well it's that strange thing when you think about the casting process Freve movie, they.
The studio really, really wanted Robert Redford. And then they couldn't get Robert Redford. And then they were like, well, Clint Eastwood, we want Clint Eastwood. And they couldn't get Clint Eastwood. And they skirted around Burt Reynolds. And then, I don't know if it was Donna or the Salkins, or both, but like, Actually, we really need an unknown.
Because it's gonna be, it's a challenge for the audience to buy this premise anyway. You can have superstars on all the other characters, you're Brando and you're Hackman, and you know, Otis Berg but Superman himself [00:23:00] really needs to be an unknown. If we can find the right unknown, then people will buy it.
And, absolutely right, and they found the perfect guy. But it's just the notion, if you think like, Robert Redford is Superman? Clint Eastwood as Superman? Yeah, that just, no. No. Who are you, a friend? I would have seen Clint Eastwood as, you know, old man Bruce, if you were going to do that, but not me. My name is Kal El.
You know, it just, with the squint and, didn't they try, they tried Al Pacino at one point. Oh, geez. I think there was something, there was something he was doing in the casting call. I'm just, you know, trying to get people. As you're, as you're going. Down that list. Al Pacino had to be. Oh, I'm sure. Because all the president's men, Robert Redford and him were running right at that.
But that would have been a horrible, horrible. Oh my word. So is that how you get off planning the death of innocent people? [00:24:00] Are you doing Christopher Walken or are you doing Al Pacino? No, I'm trying to do Al Pacino. But walking into, I don't know. No, by causing the death. No, that's, that's the Hackman's, you know, by causing the death of innocent people.
I can't, I'm trying, I'm sitting here, I'm trying to think of lines of dialogue that Superman says in Superman, and all I can think of is lines that everyone else says. Otis Berg. That's my car! You know, I, I do this to this day. My dog. anD I've caught myself doing this. My dog will sometimes be, because he's such a nosy animal.
So you come home with groceries and he's got to, you put the, if you put them on the floor, my dog, German Shepherd, he'll start poking his nose in the bags. You know, he's got to have this in front. And I catch myself all the time saying to him, Get away, get away, get away, get away, get away! And it's exactly the Hackman parlance when he's yelling at I don't know if it's Test Marker or, or Otis, but he, Hackman's got the get away, get away, get away, [00:25:00] get away, get away!
Poor Ned Beattie. Oh, I know, but he's so, voila. No, for me, every time I see Ned Beattie, he can play Rudy's dad all he wants, but I just see him getting, you know, torn up and then delivered. That's a commitment to the role that he would never talk about. I wouldn't talk about it. He would not talk about that.
I gather the actor who's playing the Hillbilly? Yeah, really, not got method on him, but really got into the role. He's kind of into it. And Reynolds, I think, had to kind of pull him off like, Dude, what the hell are you doing to my friend Ned here, you know? Squeal! Come on! And even when I'm watching 1941, there's just a part of me that's like, oh god.
Anyway. Let's get back to the real movie. Back to, there we go. So, God, you know. We, audience, we, we absolutely appreciate your patience with us. And your understanding of our digressions. But no, I liked The Flash, I enjoyed it very much. The bit at the end where you got to see, you know, there was a little bit of Adam West, a little bit of George Reeves, [00:26:00] that was fun I think they could have maybe played a little bit more with that, but I understand why they wouldn't, because the problem is, is even though they started that Production of that movie, putting that together before Marvel decided to go down the multiverse route.
Marvel is the, is the cinematic universe that is doing the multiverse route. So if you deep dive into that too much, I think you You're going to run the risk of people being like, Ah, they're doing the same thing that Marvel's doing. And they don't understand. Oh, DC did it first. Yeah, I know. DC created this.
And DC does it better because, you know, let's face it, the multiverse in DC is such a thing. And it has been since two flashes are running alongside of a wall. Flash of two worlds. Exactly. But and seeing Christopher Reeve was a bit like. And, and that's where we, we kind of talked about it. Don't do that then.
You can't do it now. Yeah. It's too late. It's kind of too late. I've got the the, the [00:27:00] new actors agreement. I wish I'd made it a little brighter, you know, a little brighter for him. Cause I feel like his, you know, it was a little paler. I kind of feel like I really wanted to see the blues and the reds and I get your look.
Well, and maybe, you know, it's great that they got these new actors agreements and maybe there's some AI in there, but. Yeah, I let the man rest. Yeah. I, I'm the same way like this is, I, I wish I could've gotten four really strong Superman movies out of, out of his run. Two out of four ain't bad. But two, well, I'd like the first and the second one.
You, you like the second one? I love the Superman suit. Second one? No. Although I did recently buy the Richard Donna cut of Superman. Oh, I that one too got blueray. So I'm gonna watch that and hopefully I will enjoy that. But no, there's something about Superman 2 that never sat well. But that's why we start going to Was it the super cellophane?
Yeah, I'm not crazy about that. Although, what is that and what purpose does it serve apart from what you see? And why don't we have it now? It's really solved a lot of problems It really would have. In the [00:28:00] comic. But, when you see the Donner cut, he, he, he addresses that cellophane thing. He's like, yeah, that wasn't me.
That wasn't me. That wasn't me. Did I ever tell you this story about why General Zod traumatized me as a child? I'm You know, we're deep diving, let's go. Take this, this is so stupid. So, the line of dialogue is, as Terrence Stamp, love Terrence Stamp, is playing General Zod in the opening moments of Superman the movie, and the council have just all voted, guilty, guilty, all those big floating heads, and Terrence Stamp's General Zod is having that monologue to, as Brando's Jor El is walking away.
You know, you, you, side with us! You know, and, and blah blah blah blah. He's got that whole speech about, it's gotta be a unanimous vote or what have you. And then Terrence Stamp starts yelling at him. You will [00:29:00] bow down before me! And the line is, you! And then one day, your heirs, which obviously plays into why it would be important for General Zod to start picking fights with Kal El in number two.
I thought he said, I kid you not, gentlemen, this is the God's honest truth. I thought he said, you will bow down before me, you, and one day, your arse! And I Look at how he's dressed, okay. He's in this shiny black leather thing and he, I just kind of had this thought like, General Zod wants to sodomize Jor El's kids?
Boy, this guy's a real villain. And I don't know when that idea came into my head. I'm hoping I was a little bit older because that movie came out in 1978. And I was six? That's kind of a twisted [00:30:00] thought for a six year old to have. So I don't know exactly when it came in, but it was years later that Superman was on the TV and my wife has a habit of turning closed captioning on the TV and forgetting to turn it off.
And I'm watching this and it's, you, and one day you're it. Oh. Well, don't I feel stupid, you know, but yeah, Oh my. So yes, I, that's, I thought, wow, General Zod, he's a real villain. No wonder they fired Richard Donner when they ran him off, he did that script, what is that? What happens in Superman 2 that we never got to see?
Superman 3, no wonder they got Richard Prior, they had to straighten all this up. So I gotta say, Superman 3, everybody hates Superman 3, yes, I kinda liked it. When I was a kid and the the the lady when she gets sucked into the machine thing Yeah, well just terrified me. I I was scared out of my mind and I'll tell you as a kid [00:31:00] Richard Pryor Oh, yeah, the whole thing and I liked it too.
But as I rewatched it about five years ago, and I was like this Oh, I watch something when I watch Quest for peace the message in quest for peace is a good one, right? The fact that they were using the spare change, they robbed the hobo in the parking lot for special effects. Um, and you know, they were doing, they're basically doing Where'd that budget come from?
We've been rolling hobos in the parking lot. They were doing the first season of South Park movement for things where they were cutting construction paper and all that. If you went and redid, you know, you gave Donner his due and redid the second guy here. I would like them to sit that movie down and freshen it up.
I don't know if it's possible. You have Nuclear Man with his nuclear fingernails. Yes. You have to change a few things. Gene Hackman can't be voicing Nuclear Man. But you could clean it up. They put some [00:32:00] money into that horrible Fantastic Four Roger Corman thing. I got the blu ray of that. What is this? You don't know about the Roger Corman Fantastic Four?
Well, the most recent Fantastic Four. No. This is going to be a whole separate episode. Yeah, this has to be a whole separate episode. In fact, I'm going to give you go to Amazon Prime and look up Doomed? The Story of Roger Corman's Fantastic Four. Watch that documentary. Yeah. Okay. This is about a horrible Fantastic Four movie made by Roger Corman in the 90s so that Marvel could retain the rights and sell it to the next guy that did the movie with Chris Evans.
And they actually got some decent actors. Stan Winston did the special effects. And they were being told they were making a real movie. And then the day it was supposed to be released in the mall, this Mall of America or whatever. They go to the stars and I'm like, just kidding. And, Spurned this whole, it is, And Stan Lee [00:33:00] Was very instrumental in selling the bullshit.
He'd show up to set, tell everyone, hey, you're the Reed Richards and the Ben Grimm, I was thinking of one day. He, he saw, he collected his check. For whatever he needed to do. And so, so did Corman. Stan can work a room. Corman, Corman got a million dollars to do something that was never meant to be on air.
And I've got the documentary. I've got the Blu ray. I bought, I bought the damn bootleg blue. We need to watch that. I don't usually condone things like this, but I might have to watch that one just for research purposes. I've never seen this. Well, the most recent Fantastic Four was just, oh, tanks. There's been like, there's, there's been.
Two superhero movies. I've literally just said, all right, I'm done. Right. That was one of them. I just could not, I couldn't make sense of the thing. The, the, you're talking about the Fox, the last Fox. The Josh, was it Tanks? Tanks, yeah. It was just abysmal. Worse than Rise of the Silver Surfer? See, I like Rise of the [00:34:00] Silver Surfer.
Yes, it's worse than Rise of the Silver Surfer. Do you really like it or do you just like Jessica Alba? No, I, I actually like Silver Surfer. I like, I like seeing Silver Surfer on screen. I'm being, I'm being, trying to be funny and bombing there. It made you happy. It made us all happy. Yeah, cause Lawrence Fishburne, I think, does the voice of Silver Surfer.
It's like, oh yeah, I can buy that. It's pretty good. Galactus, on the other hand, what the hell is that? Yeah, it was a cloud. It's a big cloud. Yeah, it's an angry cloud. Space cloud. Space cloud. But in that era, in that era of what we were getting for movies, it was alright. But the, the, the last, yeah, this, this tank fantasy 4 1.
Yeah, it was nonsense. It just didn't make sense. Once again, they say they got their Dr. Doom wrong. It was this, this guy was on a planet and he was the planet. Cause they took the ultimate Fantastic Four story and spun that, so he was left behind, so now he has the power of a planet to, to fly. The whole thing was just, it was bad.
That and the new, the most recent Hellboy was also just like, what the heck is this? [00:35:00] I can't bring myself to watch that. It's so bad. And it's a shame cause I really like David Harbour, but no, I'm not doing that. The movie itself was just horrible. Okay, so, in The Flash. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The the, there's a couple of things I liked.
I liked the, I liked the baby flash, like when he's catching all babies. Yes. I thought that was funny. I liked that. I liked that a little bit. And I loved, I actually liked kind of going back and, and seeing all the, the multiverses. Yeah. I enjoyed that quite a bit. My favorite thing in the whole deal really was the Nicolas Cage Superman.
Right. And I, I still, I, But surely Kevin Smith has talked about this. He has. He has? Oh yeah. Yeah. You can find it on YouTube. He, he did this one man show and he talks about his interactions with John Peters I think. Who's the producer. He tells that story. Yeah. But I want to hear him. I want to hear what he has to say about it.
Oh, about it. About it showing up. About the spider. Oh I don't know. About the spider showing up. Because. [00:36:00] The fact that Nicolas Cage is there, that's good, but the fact that he's fighting a giant spider, that's straight out of Kevin Smith's story. He got paid about half a million dollars for that. Nicolas Cage?
No, Kevin Smith got paid a writer's credit because they used that. They used his spider? Yeah, Nick Cage got something, something too. He was on set for like a couple of hours. Yeah. Even though Nick's like, I don't know what they were doing. That's not what I've as like, of course you, but you got to put the suit on.
Yeah. Yeah. You got to, you got to finally that's, that's pretty great. And the, the Keaton Batman was just so good. I, I enjoyed every second of Batman fighting. So, so what's going to happen, uh, I was disappointed with all of Snyderverse. I think that DC's core issue is they didn't understand who their characters are.
Yeah, yeah. Right? They sort of get Batman. Like, we've had some really [00:37:00] good Batman movies. Even the Robert Pattinson thing, I like that one. Because it's like noir Batman. It's Batman year one. Right? You've got, Most of the Well The most recent iteration of Batman's Good, it's about the Chris Nolan Chris Nolan ones.
Those were but not but not Snyder verse That's first two. You didn't like the third you didn't like no man's land I did not like the third one. No trying to cross no man's land with cataclysm no earthquake where he gets his back broken. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. Night, night, night, nightfall, nightfall.
That's it. Nightfall. No, I didn't like the third one at all. I didn't like it. It felt like Christopher Nolan was coming to conclusions about Batman and I did not care for the conclusions that I think that I, that I inferred. sO I recognize that, that I inferred from. bUt the first one I thought was very good, [00:38:00] and the second one, although I hated it the first time I saw it, repeat viewings, I did a complete 180.
The Snyderverse films it's You know, we, we've talked as a group a few times and, and it comes up, you know, Warner Brothers, the studio, not understanding the characters or whatever, whatever the, the, the thinking was behind it. My issue is there are specific things, specific left turns that really feel like we all know they should have been right turns.
The only reason to make it a left turn was, in my view, because it makes it a half assed, very, very crummy way of trying to surprise your audience. So the left turn with Man of Steel, there were two things. Cause I quite enjoyed Man of Steel. There [00:39:00] were, there were places where it trips. The whole Kevin Costner and the tornado thing.
It's like, oh, come on, you know, stay there, son. What, what, what, that, anyway. But the, the trips was the level of destruction that you see in Metropolis. Because again, boys and girls, this is a Superman movie. This isn't, you know, Independence Day. The Hulk? Yeah, the, the carnage was just, whoa! And of course, the snap.
And not the fun Thanos snap, the neck breaking snap. That was the left turn. That just, well, this is ruined. Like, why would you do that? And then, Dawn of Justice. See, I don't think that was because they, I think that they purposely were trying to make Superman darker. There was an article. Where Snyder said he was trying to, he didn't want a light hearted thing.
And you need Superman to be very, it needs to be bright. It needs to be a very bright character. [00:40:00] So, yeah, well, not to, not to interrupt, but David S. Goyer who wrote that, that screenplay, I believe Goyer's the one who said that the vision that him and Snyder were working on was that Rather than have a story of light that then goes into a place of darkness, they were gonna flip it, and do every all these characters are in a place of darkness, and then they find the light by coming together as the Justice League.
So, Superman is has no experience as Superman, which is why he makes the mistake of killing Zod, when a more mature and experienced Superman would have found another way. That shows me you have no concept of who Superman is, but fine, fair enough. And with Batman, this is why you get a Batman that's been Batman for quite some time.
His Robin was murdered, he's very cynical and brutal, he's killing people, he's branding people. And it's [00:41:00] this, they're all gonna be in the darkness and then they would come together in the light. Well. Guys, what do you think? Is that necessary for characterization? Or are we just admitting that we don't really understa We're trying to make the characters under our terms instead of what those characters should be?
Oh, this is an argument. And are we gonna stick around? Like, they had a lot of faith in the audience. Oh, they're gonna stick around for all this garbage, right? Oh, they'll stick around for this? Yeah. The Superman Returns, I thought they got the tone of Superman right. You're talking about the Brandon and Ruth film?
Yes. Yeah, okay. They got the tone of Superman right. Yep. They got the character wrong in that Superman is not the world's most powerful deadbeat dad. He's also not super stalker floating outside of Lois Lane's window. Quite right. He's none of those things. He is, he's good. When will Lex Luthor give up these land grabs?
Sorry. Well, no, no, it's, but it's also when, you know, I remember a time when Warner Brothers, you know, [00:42:00] superhero properties were the top films. Marvel has, you know, we got our horrible Captain America, the Punisher, all those. Dolph Lundgren is a Punisher. It's another example of Warner Brothers, and through many presidents, and many, whoever hires directors and goes out, goes, Oh my God, that guy did great with X Men.
Ooh, we like that Marvel money. We hadn't seen the Avengers Marvel money yet, but oh yeah, let's get a guy who wants to do a love letter to Richard Donner. Chill. Which is what you kind of did. Yes. And, and once again, Brandon was a, was a passable Superman. See, I thought it was a good idea too. I, because Bryan Singer's X Men 2 was one of my favorite superhero movies ever.
And when I heard Josh Whedon was going to be a part of the Justice League to help clean up, I was like, Oh, this will be all right. Yeah. But Warner Bros., just like Warner Bros. found a way for me to care about Ezra Miller's Flash character, these guys made me go, oh my god, I don't know if I want to watch a movie [00:43:00] made by either one of these guys again.
Right. Because, maybe it's like comic book writers, you're Marvel guys. I can get Bendis over here to do a couple of things, but you're really a Marvel guy. You tell better Marvel stories. Okay, so you're better And, and also better controls, better product, but there was just something where, Oh, I like X Men 2.
I like this. What the hell is this? And everything Singer did after that was crap. What? He has not redeemed himself in Hollywood. I don't think he's going to get a chance to. And, and Zach, now Zach, what Zach has gotten to do is go, Hey, Netflix, do you care what I make? I'm going to create my own characters.
Yeah. Because if I, I want, while I enjoyed the Watchmen movie for what it was, it was not the, you know, wasn't the book down here I was looking at. But if I, if I've watched that and they're like, Hey, I got the guy to do Superman. Do you? Cool. Watchmen. That one we just lost a shit ton of money on. Yeah. So what are [00:44:00] we going to do?
We're going to let him do our DC universe. The whole universe. The whole universe. Why? Did you see Watchmen? I did. Why? There's times I feel like the audience is smarter than the people making the shows. Because there's many times, or if anything, if I'm sitting around, Warner Bros kicking around an idea, who we want to run this up?
Man, what do the, what do all the Marvel people complain about? But their movie guides don't pop up in the TV show, in the TV show. Are we doing any TV shows right now with DC characters? Have you watched this Arrow? Oh, is that about a stick? No, it's Green Arrow. Ah. People love it. They don't know it's a superhero show.
That's kind of like what they did with Blade. Yeah, they didn't know they were watching a Marvel movie. Huh. And we got this Fast Kid. When we introduced him, he didn't have any powers. Really. We're doing another show. Hmm. What are they doing? Who's that guy running that? that, that fixes, that fixes your problem in business.
How do you beat someone? [00:45:00] You look what the competition's doing. Yeah. You steal, you steal what they're doing well, and then you fix what they're doing wrong. Right. Or unfortunately, we've passed all that now because we had to shit can the CW. Right. We don't have that. We don't have that fallback anymore. Well, so you have a good point on this one because CW, Understood who the character is, right?
So that Superman Lois show, that is the best Superman that's ever been on screen. I like that guy. He does a great job. Once again, they tricked everyone with Arrow. Now, they turned Arrow into Batman because they couldn't have Batman. They did. But it worked for what they were trying to do. He wasn't rich enough to be Batman, but you know.
No, but it was, you know, once again, dead family. You know, I'm sorry. My green arrow was not grim and gritty, but, but you opened up the rest of the universe. So I'll forgive you for that. Cause you gave me on a vertigo. [00:46:00] Green arrow was pretty well, but you gave me, you gave me five. Three and a half seasons of decent Arrow shows, and then you gave me The Flash, and his first two seasons were alright.
Then you tried, you couldn't do The Justice League, so you did Legends of Tomorrow. And you did two seasons of it, you had no effin idea what you were supposed to do with these people. Then you've turned it into The Kevin Maguire Justice League. And it worked. Yeah, It wasn't the best. Once you started that, and you realized how ridiculous that was, you let it go.
Then you gave me Supergirl. Who was pretty damn good for the most part. Yeah. And then you gave, you tried to give me crisis. You did all right for what you had. Yeah. And then, and then at the end you gave me a Superman. Well, you gave me star girl. Thank you for that because you gave me the shade. And if you listen to my one day, this is my star man episode.
You will know the shade was one of my favorite character off that. I don't think I saw the second season of that. Oh, you need to. [00:47:00] I need to go watch that. You need to watch that because they tried to build their justice society. But with that, whoever was making those TV decisions should have gone over to the film and went, Hey man, you know, we're, we're doing this all right.
You ran Jeff Loeb off of Marvel before they could put Nick Fury in there more. Cause every time Nick Fury showed up on shield, the the ratings went up. Why don't you let Chris Evans show up for 30 minutes and go, yeah, that Warner brothers adjust. I don't know if they're tired of getting smacked around, because like I said, the other movie talk I've, I go on and on about how you, I mean, if, if you came to me and I didn't know anything about the DC universe today, man, we want you to make a whole bunch of moves.
You know, the first place I'm going is the comic book store. Yeah. I'm going to find that guy that hasn't bathed in a while with long hair and sitting behind the counter probably and go look. Cousin Billy. Cousin Billy. He left. I love how you've like leaned into the comic book stereotype as we sit and watch.
You know, when, when the, when the Simpsons created the comic book guy, that was, you [00:48:00] know, they nailed that right on. Unfortunately. But I would look at that guy and go, I don't care what the execs are telling me. I don't care what the merchandise, what do you want to see? And then I'm going to go to about five other people and then I'm going to read about a hundred comics.
Yeah, they'll go back to those exact. That's sort of what Marvel ended up, Marvel ended up. That's what Marvel did. You know what Marvel did that was smart is they brought in. Remember when all that started, they had that killer writers writing team. They would go on those Marvel retreats. Yeah. And you'd have like, you'd have Bendis and Brubaker and Matt Fraction was there at the time.
Yeah. He was writing Iron Fist, I think, at the time. Is that right? I think so. Yeah. Well, yeah. So you, you had these you had the, this killer set of writers at Marvel, which I don't know if I can name a writer at Marvel other than J. Michael Straczynski. They are Hickman. Yeah, but That's it. That's it.
But yeah, no, I'm kidding. Yeah. He is, [00:49:00] he starts strong and then I don't know what the hell is going on after that. So, it's a, they had that, that killer writers room and they brought them in. So, Bendis has credits on a bunch of the movies, right? And they, they sat down with them and when they had them come in during the special effects, they were like, Oh, Iron Man doesn't fly like that.
Iron Man flies with his hands by his sides, not out here. You gotta change it to be this way. And they're like, Oh, okay. And they fixed the, the thing because the people knew the characters. Otherwise, can you imagine you didn't end up with an Iron Man doing this thing? He's arms up. Well, it just, just to throw in real quick.
The, what's interesting is, is you, there's not, I think there's a perhaps a conversation to be had that since Marvel Studios decided they no longer need that creative consultancy, uh, input. Marvel spun a little. The quality may have Gone a bit downhill. Yeah. Interesting. So there's a discussion perhaps to be had there.
But you were getting ready to lead [00:50:00] into my rant about the going to the comic book stores. Oh. And as I saw you had a thought, I'm very interested to only, okay, but only in so much that, I mean I agree with you, I definitely agree with you. But what I also think is missing and perhaps is more of a critical aspect.
Because yeah, you have to have understanding of these characters. You really do. I mean, that just seems like, a no brainer. You know, you, you know, I'm sure when Mario Puzo got the gig to write Donna's Superman film, I'm sure the first thing he did was Either his comic collection or somebody or, you know, visited DC Comics and said can I spend a couple of days in your archives and absorb in what are all the elements, not of what makes a great Superman story because that's for him to come up with.
It's going to be his job as a writer to come up with the great Superman [00:51:00] story, but what he needs to understand is Who is Superman? What makes Superman? What are the ancillary characters? What is that world? He needs to understand the foundation that came before. And then he can create the story that will go up on the big screen.
And that will be a story that will be tailored to The benefit of being shown on a big screen. The story for Superman the movie, if that had just been a comic book story, illustrated comic book story, actually, I think it would have been a, eh, it's kind of meh, because when you read Superman comics, you're expecting these fantastical threats, these fantastical situations.
Let's face it, Superman the movie, He spins around the world, he fixes the San Andreas fault, but most of that movie is [00:52:00] just kind of clever dialogue and wordplay and a bit of romance and a bit of charm and da da da da da. And he flies. We take it for granted that Superman can fly in the comic books. I mean, that's a, that's the, the least wow factor in a Superman comic, of course he flies.
Okay, so you've got to come up with something that makes that all that spectacular and all it's engaging and so on and so forth. So that is a movie works just like now I said I was, you know, Batman, the movie kind of left me a bit cold. But I completely bought that it was. A Batman film. I completely bought that I'm watching Batman.
Just like I completely bought that Linda Carter will forever be Wonder Woman. It's, it's, the, the, the characterization is there. You can go any way you want with the story, but the characterization is [00:53:00] there. Man of Steel. Again, this, the David Goyer thing about, well, he's a very young Superman. He hasn't quite learned how to be Superman yet, and that's why he kills General Zod.
oKay, when Superman becomes Superman for the first time, whether it's comics or the Donner film or what have you, this is a lifetime did, did, did the Snyderverse Clark Kent not learn anything? From his upbringing with the Kents. Oh, well that's the thing. And his time with That's not the part that you learn.
You don't learn character by, by starting off being Superman. Your, your character is your character. Well, no, he Like, he He was that I think we're both saying the same thing, but from a different angle. Without a cape. He's still Superman. He's still Superman. Of course he is. Of course he [00:54:00] is. What they didn't let you know is that, in that Snyderverse, Martha was a serial killer.
Ah. So after Kevin Costner was swept away in the tornado, young Clark was left with Martha who taught him how to break people's necks. She ran around. Is that, now wait a minute. Now, are we talking about Martha because there's got to be a Batman element to that because he ties up in the dark. Or am I misremembering all of this?
I actually think it's the same Your mom's name is Martha too! I think it's I won't kill you! No, I think it's the same Martha. What happened was that She only got wounded with the comedian there at the beginning, and so she snuck off, and she changed her last name. Now we're circling around to Watchmen for all of you who aren't following this.
Is that what the multibus, the Snyder multibus is? Hey, we got Maggie from The Walking Dead, and the comedian was raising Bruce Wayne. It all makes sense now. See, that's it. I feel like Jeffrey Coombs is the question. [00:55:00] It all makes sense. And we just fixed the Snyderverse with that and someone owes us a check.
There you go. So, here's a question. What do we want from James Gunn? Yes. What do we want from the James Gunn version. Clean slate, and give me the characters that we've known and loved in the comics for years and years and years up on the big screen, please. And that's why he needs new actors for all the roles.
And I need very abbreviated origin stories. No, I was going to say, don't show me a rocket for Donaghan. No, what I'm talking about, like, at the beginning. You know, you've got, you kind of like the Marvel flashing when you see all the, I don't, I don't need, I don't need more than about a minute, 10 seconds of origin credits.
Now you've got, you've got Mr. Terrific running around over there and a couple of other people that you may have to flesh out maybe three minutes on their origin story, but it sounds like they're going to be established already in super, I mean, Hawkgirl's running around there and [00:56:00] like Superman's the newbie.
they've, they've cast they've cast a Hawk Girl. They've caught cast a Mr. Terrific. Oh, you just made my stomach drop out. Oh, I'm sorry. They, they, and the guy that played ZZ and Gotham is playing Metamorpho. Mm-Hmm. . This is all crammed into the, the Superman movie. So here's the thing, Hoda, if Jore and Laura have any conversation, , if there there are any lines exchanged, my son on Friton.
Then they've, they've gone wrong. Yeah. Like, they, they should be flashing. If, if anything, we all know already. Like, I don't need to see another radioactive spider. I don't need to see another Krypton blow up. Uncle Ben died. I don't need to see a kid fall into a cave with bats. I don't need any of that.
That's all been covered. We've seen that. I can't even tell you how many movies that we've done this in. We're done. We're done with those origins. If I had to, if I had to guess. Because this whole arc is called Gods and Monsters. Right. And it's starting off [00:57:00] with Rick Flag Senior in the Suicide Squad in Creature Commandos.
The animated movie. Right. Okay. So, this has to be a mystical threat, which Superman is useless against. Right. So we're gonna start over here in Suicide Squad. It's gonna tie into the Amazons. Because we're going to get to, I mean, I don't need to show about the Amazon back history, but obviously that is something that's going to build.
Now James Gunn makes hear this and he's really good about answering on Twitter and all of that. And I'm, I'm not trying to say you're bad film. I mean, I'm not on Twitter right now. Tim is to gun, but. What are you going to do? We really need snow now, please. So maybe that's why you've thrown these extra characters into Superman that I don't know why you would need.
I don't know how Batman falls, I mean, other than, what's the monster? I want, just like you, I want clear [00:58:00] characters, characterizations. Consistent with what we've known. The, so I want consistent strong source material. I mean, if, if, if you want to, if you want to change something about Clark, can't that he, you know, now he's a vegan or something.
Fine. I don't care about that. No, I'm out. I'm out. Don't do it. I'm just saying, if you're going to touch something tough, something like that, because I don't care what Superman eats, but what I. What I don't want to get He eats sunlight. That's what he eats. He enjoys a ballpark frank and a nice cold root beer.
I just don't want to see I've seen lots of ads. I know exactly what he eats. I don't want to see a I don't want to see a drunk Superman. I don't want to see a Superman dealing with psychedelics. Unless it's a villain that's done something to him. I don't like when Superman turns bad. Like, don't give me any red kryptonite.
I don't want a red kryptonite story. I'd be fine with no kryptonite. That's actually my only problem. The thing I hated about Superman 3, I hate when the good guys are bad. I still never read the Captain America Hydra [00:59:00] story. F them for doing that in the first place. Well, it ended up not being our cap. So, hey, I was right.
He showed up in Uncanny Avengers. I was like, oh, lookie there. I did think of you when I read that. But, and I don't really know what's after Batman. I don't know what tentpoles are going to try to, how they're going to try to pull the Justice League, but what I don't want them to do is that the Justice League we're going to get is Superman, Batman, Hawkgirl, Mr.
Terrific, Metamorpho, see where we're going. I mean, we might have one or one, because that, that's the only, when we were battling, Ally and I were batting it around a little bit, we kind of touched on that. I was like, do you think that's going to be the Justice League? I was like, I hope not unless it's that everyone's in the Justice League and you know, you have your core characters because, you know, I'm having a Mr.
Terrific. If you need a tech guy. Yeah, you need a tech guy. He's a good you got two options. You got a cyborg or Mr. Terrific. You kind of burned out cyborg a little bit. Yeah, I think poor Ray is [01:00:00] ran people out and metamorphosis kind of your bridge between Supernatural, misunderstood, you know, science y, maybe Mr.
Terrific has something to do with it. Are we going to get a Suicide Squad? We got Rick Flatt Sr. Not Suicide Squad but the Doom Patrol. Doom Patrol. Are we going to get Doom Patrol? I don't know, I mean, it's, look, there's a, there's an element here that we haven't discussed and that is, is this all too soon?
I mean, that was the You know, the Andrew Garfield Spider Man that they quickly rushed into because they didn't want to lose the, the, the license. Well, what I want, what I was, what I thought when I said I think they should have held on to the Flash, they should have waited. Right. Whatever that end credit scene is where, oh, the whole, the whole place is different now.
Yeah. I think that needed to be new Batman that shows up and new Superman shows up and it's, he's in the new world like he's changed the world to be this other thing. Well, it's the, [01:01:00] it's the bowl of spaghetti. So when, when he says you can't go back to the original time, it doesn't work that way because there's a forward and a backward change.
So that universe, no matter what Barry Allen does. Is forever changed. So, there's no going back to the start. And I did actually think, like, you know, One thing that's kind of interesting, I now have answers about the order, but go ahead. Is that they actually don't address, Think about this from an audience perspective That really doesn't know the things that we know, Because we're a bunch of big nerds here.
Barry Allen's mother's murder is never revisited. Oh, it's true. But, you know, don't we see it in the No. No? He goes back, and he moves the can of soup to the top shelf, so his dad gets home and his mother isn't murdered. But the fact that she was murdered in the first place that [01:02:00] sets this whole journey off, that's never actually addressed.
Oh. Well, actually, I think the dad thing is, it cleared the dad of the murder. It the mom is still dead. Because why would I be having a trial? Right, yes. That's right, yes, you're absolutely correct. Which means that it's still an unsolved, or, they never go back to that. Alright, so hang on to your hats, gentlemen.
So we've got Creature Commandos. Right. Superman Legacy. Yeah. We forgot this one. The Authority. I didn't even know they were doing that. Brave and the Bold. Live Action Authority? Yes. Okay. Superman, Woman of Tomorrow. Supergirl. Super, well, not Supergirl, yeah, pardon me. Swamp Thing. Right. Waller. Booster Gold.
Lanterns. Right. And Paradise Lost. They are all part of the Gods and Monsters storyline. Okay. Apparently something in Lanterns Is central, like the lanterns are [01:03:00] going to be a detective show. And apparently Booster Gold is the voice across all of it. Okay. . You think it's going to be it could be New Gods.
Well, I mean, it could be Booster coming back trying to Keep from whatever happening, Is he gonna Be a time traveling Screw up like Tom King had him in the Batman story all they're doing here's a quick character synopsis of, long time comic relief, , traveling through times will be, an integral voice in all the films.
I'm saying it right now, I want Skeets. Yes, true. And I want Mason Lane to voice Skeets. I think that'll work brilliantly. Because when you want sharp, snark, Apathetic, disinterested, your stupid voice. Go with Nathan Lane. I want to do it where it does the portal robot voice. Have you played Is that Nathan Lane?
I do. You know, if it came to Nathan Lane, I wouldn't mind John Oliver. Oh yeah, John Oliver, yeah, yeah, yeah. I just can't handle John Oliver. Well, for [01:04:00] Skeets, I mean, he's not giving his political views,
Extraordinary. well, I guess we'll find out. We could Josh McHale, the guy that played star man in Right. From Community. He should be Booster Gold. He should be Booster Gold, and John Oliver can be, Ted Kord Blue Beetle. And the two of them can just make us laugh, laugh, laugh.
No, you get Abed. Abed from Community. Could be Ted Kord. Could. We're really safe when you're drinking. You really want Abed and Troy from Community playing Booster and Beetle. Jason, for God's sakes man, pull the plug on this.
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