If I could read one comic
===
[00:00:00]
Introduction and Reunion
---
You're listening to the multi-verse podcast. Today. The team is all back together and we're talking about. The series we wish we could reread for the very first time. Listening
Good guy. Oh, lovely. Okay. So it's that. Welcome back, Jason. It's good to see you. To see Jason. Thanks.
Jason's Budapest Adventure
---
Back from your special assignment in Budapest. Yes, I was in Budapest. I was trying to see what what Hawkeye and Black Widow were so worried about. They kept talking about it in the movies. That's right.
And we never saw. And then did you find anything? Did you get souvenir arrow or you know what? I did do. I, I didn't know that this existed before. First, like Buddha Palace and all that stuff was just extraordinary. Right. To check out. So I saw it lit up at night. I, I didn't have a lot of time. I was there for work, so I didn't have a lot of time to see it otherwise.
Exploring Budapest's Nightlife
---
But I went to the ruin bars. Have you heard of this? Mm-hmm. ? I believe so. In Budapest. There were these bombed out buildings from World War ii, right? Where people started setting up like a pop-up bar, right? In these, in [00:01:00] these ruins. And then more and more people did it, and then it ultimately became sort of legitimized, right?
And they would gate off sections of the building that are not safe or whatever. And it's a whole district. But part of the shtick is you are in ruins. Like you are in the ruins of these buildings, right? And they have set up they set up a, a nighttime establishment there. And it's pretty awesome. Like it's super, that's very cool.
It's a very cool vibe. So that, that's the one thing that I, that that I did do.
Marvel Movie Speculations
---
And I could see that as the setting of, of a a throw down with Marvel movie with Black Widow on Haw, black Widow on Hawkeye. That's started. That's where it would've started. That's right. The row bars. Because that's where you go to meet if you're if you're in the, that's it, sort of under cloak and dagger and, you know, I was in the tightest crowd I've ever been in that place.
Like I, I was a little worried. So were you, were you the youngest one there or the oldest one there in that tight crowd? Who were, who, [00:02:00] who, who were you cohabiting with? It was a mix. I, I, I think I raised the average age by about a decade. Okay. , a buddy of mine, you can still hang. So a buddy of mine that lives in Dallas happened to post online that he had spoken at a conference in Budapest, like literally in a building right outside of my hotel.
And so I texted him, I was like, Hey, you want, do you wanna go out? So I went out with this guy that lives in Dallas, right. While we both happen to be in Budapest. There you go. So we go in, we we're trying to find a seat, and there's . You know, the room bars doesn't have great seating. Like it's these weird or plumbing or plumbing mismatched stools.
Like, we didn't even try that problem, that that's a whole different issue. So we sat by a random Irishman who was by himself. He was just checking the scene out and we were like, can we sit with you? 'cause he was this dude's by himself. He was like, sure. So we sat in with this random Irish dude and bought each other rounds like for a very long time.
It was, it was a it [00:03:00] was a great thing.
Podcast Studio Chit-Chat
---
It we have libations this evening here. This in the the podcast studios of the multiverse. So we're, drinking Angels envy from the Avengers decanter. Two of us are partaking, one is not.
No, I'm tee to totaling it this evening. Yeah. So, such his life, all of the reasonable opinions will be coming from Steven. The unreasonable come from, oh gosh, Scott and I in so much trouble. Well, you know, that's, and a lot of times Steven is the more rational of the, of the three. So it's debate.
Topic Introduction: Rereading Comic Series
---
So, topic of today what what comic series , do you wish you could reread for the first time?
That what the little Meme says there? Yeah, that was, that was the meme that I, and where'd you find that meme? I mean, other than the Innerwebs? 'cause we, no, that's, it was like Facebook. I think it might've been Comicology page. Okay. But yeah, I just saw this, that, that question, if you could reread any comic book series for the first time, what would it be?
And I thought, Ooh. [00:04:00] because there's, you know, well, we'll, we'll, we're gonna find out, you know? There you go. All right. So who has a strong opinion on the, on this?
Scott's Comic Series Choices
---
Every time about just a mini series or where you jumped into comics the first time.
But it sounds like we're gonna open the floodgates to, I think it can be anything that, that captured you excited, you moved you, whatever the, the, whatever the reaction was. And, and you, of course you reread it, but you never quite get that. Wow. You know, it's like, You know, the first time I saw Independence, stay in the movie theater and thought, wow, this is amazing.
And then you watch it again later and you're like, this is rubbish. But it, but at that moment it was, wow, look. You know, so I thought that with the Matrix movies, I saw the, the First Matrix and I was like, oh yeah, wow. Gosh, that's, I've everything. Like, [00:05:00] that's that. Yeah. Oh yeah. It's mind blowing. And unlike independent state the Matrix I think did, does hold up for very multiple viewings.
Yeah. And time has been kind to it, but it's nothing like that first, you know? Oh yeah. Wow. You know, I can't believe what I'm seeing. Especially if you knew nothing about it, which I didn't. I was on a plane flying to England and you know, they had the in-flight entertainment and I was like, I. Matrix.
Yeah. I think there's something about batteries, isn't it? And just put it on and was just glued and, and you weren wrong to a screen that's about, you know, four inches by, by three inches. You know, my, my eldest daughter who was only who was only five at the time, she was brilliant because, you know, any other child could have been like, dad, I want this and that.
She just left me alone. She, she had her coloring books and she was like, no, dad's having fun. I'm just, you know, very wise as my eldest . [00:06:00] She's a PIs seeds. . She's very wise. So it brings it on. Huh? That's what It's okay. So, yeah, so there you go. That's the that's the, that's the plan of the day. There we go.
All right. I have, I have, I have to decide between three. I've got three of these. Well, I'll bungle down the road 'cause I'm, 'cause I'm, I'm, I'm measuring them because I've had almost a week to think about . when we first posed this question. Well, okay. So just for the interest of time. Mm-hmm. , do we want to do, you've got your one and you've got your close runner up, something like that.
But I'm also looking at impact because you and I read comics for different, in different ways. I'm gonna say we both have very similar tastes. Yes. Yeah. We've all talked about how the killing joke hits us different as we got older and had kids. Yes. And, and. Right. And, and [00:07:00] so I think we did a podcast. We, I think we did a podcast Children on that.
I believe we did.
Jason's Favorite: Kingdom Come
---
If I had to nod my cap to the run, that took me down this entire journey and wrapped me into comics for the, the rest of my life. Right. I answered it in the group chat. It was Avengers 1 54, George Perez. The marveling at the Avengers because I knew nothing. You know, you, I saw the Super friends on TV and knew heroes, knew each other, but this was heroes.
I didn't know that got together and I was very fascinated with that. And the Perez hopping in and out. 'cause there was sometimes Sima was doing it there, sometimes he was doing it then had a Don Heck issue in there and a George Tuska. And then we had John Byrne, the Avengers, in that timeframe. Volume 1 1 54 through 1 76.
The quarterback series kept my interest and steered me into comics. [00:08:00] The one I wish had the emotional grab of that astonishment of picking it up and going, this is an absolute work of art. This is everything comics should be for me. Is the John Byrne run a fantastic 4, 2 32 what? Two? Almost up to two fifties.
The back end of that I still enjoy, but I read it and I acknowledge it had, you know, almost as strong of creative juices as Kirby and Stanley is what they credit that run for. Right. But that one I pick up now and it's lost a little nostalgic shine. It's not the art. I think because the Fantastic Four over time has had more disappointments for me in other creative Yes, ups and downs.
Now the Avengers have had some horrible ones, but you've always found a way to get Perez [00:09:00] back or you found a way to get bus in their writing or you found a way to get some, I mean, there's people that don't understand. There was a time in the first volume of Avengers, they were almost gonna get canceled because no one gave a damn about the Avengers that says something these days.
Founders four was canceled for a good long time before, you know, Dan Slop brought it back. But that to, to me, the swings in their creative teams were deeper and stronger than When I look at the burn run, I still, I still enjoy some of the stories, but that Oh, wow. They brought Gene Gray back. Oh wow. That's Gladiator beating the hell out of the Fantastic Four and some scrolls, oh crap.
They went to the negative verse and they turned one whole comic sideways and did sideways panels so that you had to look at it in an odd way. Oh, they, they negatively, negatively inverse their costumes from the blight. Bright blue to black, which I still think it should have been yellow and white because of [00:10:00] blue across the color wheel.
But we went darker blue with white around the neck. You really inverted a little of it. That's my favorite fantastic fold costume, by the way. I always really liked Oh, I did. I got, I, I like, I like that look too. But it . The nostalgia shine of Avengers 1 54 through 1 76. I picked up the Trade Paper Act the other day from the shop, and I read that I was as happy as a kid on Christmas.
I've got all the John Byrne omnibuses for Fantastic Four, and I thumbed through 'em was like, this is good stuff, but I really wish it made me excited like it used to. So, so that's my, when I hear that question, that's where I Right. Go with your, so, so there's that. And, and I think when, when we were ing about it in our private chat room that you civilians copy part of for health and safety reasons mostly, and lawsuits and lawsuits was the, there are things that immediately come to mind, but I, I, I wouldn't wanna take the chance [00:11:00] in choosing those because I don't have the same brain that I did back then.
So I don't even know if I would. get that impact that, that, that I got the first time that, you know, makes it the selection. And I don't know if that's, I don't know if that's fair. I mean, maybe, you know, there, there's a, there's a thought to this question, which is, you know, regardless of of maturity, you, you, you're going to get that reaction.
But it's, that's not it. It's, it's, it's, unfortunately, it's more than that. But I, I'm actually quite pleased to hear that you could reread those, you're confident that you could reread those things and still get that sense of wonder and enjoyment and magic. Yeah. Yeah. Well, look, I narrow it down to that.
I mean, and, and, you know, it's really gonna, it really rolls around George Perez. There's a lot of his artwork that I can pick up again and again and go, I. I enjoy this, [00:12:00] but if I had to pick two, you know, 'cause we, I could be on here, I could do a whole podcast myself about my love of his Titans Wonder Woman, right.
Saxon Violence Kids. That's a, that's a, that's a mc 17, NC 17 version. There sure is. But super fun though. Well, and it, and, and it's, I that's a great, it's also a great question you put in a shop because you can debate, like, I'll read comics sometimes for an emotional, Hey, the Captain America punched out the Nazis.
But you might read it more as an artistic, how does this, is this story, topical? Is this story? You know, we both have kids. We've both, we're both very similar in age. We've traveled similar paths, but some areas widely different, which I guess is every human on the planet. But it sounds good when you're talking about it on a podcast asked, I.
I might gravitate more towards just a simplistic, Hey, that [00:13:00] looks cool when Ironman smacked, smack Thanos with, Hey, that looks cool when Ironman has roller blade, you know, roller skates popping out from under his boots. And it makes no sense in reality. But you also, you know, Steven, you, you, I, I know there are ones that you're like, why Killing Joke's a good one.
And it made me really go back and think about how it, how time changes your perception of stories where when I'm answering this question, I'm like, I feel like, I feel like I'm six years, you know, sixth grade again going to seven 11 with my dad and my sister to get that comic right. And all of those memories that go with that and enjoying that story, but Fantastic.
Four, ah, only a few years later, it's in the eighth grade. A little different world going on. Sure. And. I love the art, but you know, the stories are all right. . Good, but it just wasn't that. Oh wow. Look at Johnny. Look at Frankie Ray just showed up [00:14:00] and why did Ben go from smooth rocks to bumps and Right
But there, there, but you know, at the same time there's, there's a, there's a three, there's a three issue running there where Galata shows up where, I'll reread that again and enjoy that little run. Is that the trial of galas? Yeah. Well it's before that when they, they whack Galactus New York and read resurrects him.
Right. Which leads to the trial. 'cause Avengers show, UPPI Daredevils there going, should I go up against Galactus? And you know, everyone's like, no, I don't think you should. That's not that's not gonna work. It won't work out for you. Bubble . Yeah. I, you know, it's like fish running. I'm going, I've got this
club. That's it. You might, do you have another one? No, you're you're going through that and I, I'm so, so ashamed to say that. The one that went through my mind was, do you remember that precise moment that Sue Storm went from? Oh, she's like everyone's mom to hey now. Oh, yeah, yeah. There, there, there's a, that that stru the haircut and then she showed up as that [00:15:00] punk rocker chick Oh.
Malice. And everyone was like, Hey. And she's got that outfit with the four has been cut out. Yeah. So that she can have the breast window. Yeah. The window, the Power Girl fashion sense. Yes. There was you know, descrip. But that really takes us off the It does, it does. But you've actually just given me an idea because I think No, no, no.
Because I think, and, and I think it'll work within what we, what we do in the podcast is, and we'll, we'll go around and then we'll come back around. I've got a follow up question. So, Jason. Jason. Alright. I have so, . The one I wish I could reread for the first time is Kingdom Come. And I don't know if you guys have this, I often do reread things for the first time because I remember major beats of the story, but I'll forget details of the story.
Yeah. Like, yeah, I rewatch TV shows like I'm, I, I'm rewatching suits right now. I remember a couple of the major beats, even most of [00:16:00] those major beats I forgot. I don't remember anything that's happening right now, like any, some of the major beats I forgot. So, kingdom Come is one where I remembered a couple of things.
I remembered the, I, I remember the Mago guy in the fight and, and why Superman disappeared. I remembered that. I remembered sort of the captain Marvel reveal that shows up in there and that epic fight between Superman and Captain Marvel. That, that was big, but a great deal of that I had forgotten existed.
So, when I reread it not too long ago, like a couple months ago, I remember you bought the, you bought a new edition of it? Yeah. Bought you bought an absolute, when I reread it it was almost new to me and I, I recalled what it was like to read it the first time at that point. Okay. And I didn't know that art could be [00:17:00] that good.
Like that was the first time I was exposed to like, yeah, Alex Ross Unchained, like he can do whatever he wants. And it was extraordinary. And I was captured by this is what happens to my heroes. Like Right, this is the end state. And it felt very declarative. Like, didn't feel like, eh, this is maybe else worlds because there were lots of great else worlds future stories told.
Back in the nineties. Mm-hmm. and they did a set of annuals actually, that I just loved. Yes. And but this felt much more much more locked in. I, I guess, I didn't feel like it was, we've, I don't feel like we've had is as, as definitive of a future state for our heroes since then. Other than the, sorry, intentional is that intent, was that intentional?
The, the plug for future state that Yeah. Intentional, intentional. saying, sorry, excuse for a future state. We've got plenty of, we've got plenty of issues. Kids go to shopify.com multiverse and we'll ship them to you. Free, [00:18:00] free, free shipping right now. That's exactly, you can pick of some future state now.
It, so what's interesting is I kinda liked where everybody ended up in in Kingdom Come In, kingdom come. Okay. I, I liked that they sort of scattered and then had to come back to Sure. To fight a big Fight a big bad or, or bring things back into order or whatever. I, I liked that story. Future say I did not like at all.
No. No. So like, I, I didn't like where, what was sad is that's where they wanted everybody, that that was what they were aiming. That was their plan. That was the plan that T five crap. And you gotta wonder, like, everybody's like, what happened to Dillo? He had a terrible idea that nobody wanted. So anyway, that's what you get from trying to kill Dick Grayson.
Dude. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm good sir. Well, now he's a freaking pirate or something. This current issue that makes sense. It make read it makes sense. Have fun. Does it, does it, does it all? I'm not there yet. They have not let you down with Night Wing, but I'm not there yet. So I'll I'll read it and believe you when, when we get there.
No, it was, [00:19:00] it was really great to reread Kingdom Come and that level of, you know, Mark Wade is he never disappoints and the current issue of World's Finest. Is a return to Kingdom. Come, you've got the, and they, they were sort of hinting at it, right? Like one of the main characters in World's Finest leading up was gonna be Mehawk.
And that's how you wrote me into reading. Bat Me Up Batman, Superman, world's Finest was Yeah, because I, I too am a fan of Kingdom Come. I don't want to steal too much of that, but it's, it is one of the top five Superman stories I've ever read. Yep, yep. Because you, while it's always, they've always tried to do the, what do you do when Superman stops believing in himself?
This gave a legitimate reason. Yep. He, he responded as any grieving husband would respond. And
he makes [00:20:00] me think of, there was a article about George Carlin not too long ago, and they talked about how after his wife died, he got so cynical and he was extra mean and . You know, all of this. And his daughter goes, that's not it. He was disappointed in the world, so he stopped centering himself in certain situations and Interesting.
So, Superman, I mean, granted, he Carlin was much very much alive when this was going on, but it's the same. I paralleled those together where it's Superman looks at the world and goes, you didn't believe in me. You didn't want the Boy Scout. You wanted this guy. You didn't even want Batman . Yeah. So I get, I get what?
I don't wanna steal too much from your answer, but that Yeah, that's, that's exactly, I can reread Kingdom come, it doesn't hit me. It, it's still a lot of fun. It doesn't hit me emotionally, like the first time I, 'cause the first time I picked it up, I, I sat in a car in a Wendy's parking lot late to Blockbuster because I, I was the manager, [00:21:00] so I didn't care.
You can't, you know, you're never late when you're the boss. It's good to be the king. It is. And I'm sitting there reading this and I was like, I gotta start over again. Yeah. And that's, so it was good. It was, it was the best I'd seen writing be. It was the best I'd seen art be. It was the best of everything I'd ever, I, I didn't know that comics could be that good.
And I read fun comics, but I didn't, I hadn't read anything like that before. When you read it, did you read it the first time you read it? Were you following it? Monthly. I was, I, I was, I don't know how it was released, but I was picking up monthly the, like, the sort of prestige, the back dust format, full prestige format, the Baxter edition or whatever they used to call 'em.
Prestige format. Yeah, absolutely. So I picked up those four. I still, that's actually, I still have those, right? They're, they're very red copies, but I still have those. And so yeah, that, that's it for me. The, the Kingdom come series. Now, I had a couple of, I was thinking through this. There's each series [00:22:00] that I thought of.
Or a series that got me back into comics. Like, I'll, I'll stray away for comics for a little while and something will pull me back in. Right? I'll stray away for a little while and then something will pull me back in. And I remember Venice's, new Avengers pulled me in, pulled me back in the most recent time 'cause new new 52 broke me.
And I was like, forget it, I'm out. But then , then this is run, brought me back. And then I remember, I remember when I was, when I was like, I don't know, seventh, eighth grade, something, and I read Longbow Hunters. That was, I didn't know comic could be that dark. And I didn't know it was just there.
That one just planted on my mind like, oh, this is what, this is what this could be. This could be like an actual grownup. Book. Right. And I, I [00:23:00] still think about that book a lot. I I, and I'll pick it up every once in a while. Then the, the other one that came to mind just because I, and it pulled me in at a time was it's the crisis that nobody talks about.
The identity crisis storyline, which was like a mystery. Who killed Sue? No, Sue Deby. Sue Sue Deby. And then Tim. Tim. Drake. Tim, Tim Drake got killed. Yeah. It was, yeah. No, that's mind wipe. Yeah. I, well, and I separate that crisis out of the rest of the crisis and, and that is a book that many times in this shop I've stuck in people's hands said, here, read this.
You don't have to know what's going. Melter did a great job of you. Did he isolated the universe? Yeah. And you had your characters that were relevant at the time. But yes, you're absolutely right. That is a powerful book. Even to this, this day, if, if anyone, if they were gonna make an animated movie or do anything, they should do that.
Wow. The [00:24:00] reason I like, well, I mean, have the ridiculous ones. They do, do, do. Well, no, but, but it's, that's, that's a that's, that would be, geez, you, I, you'd really have to make sure that was in white. Well, that's an h b O max. And, and, and, and, and unfortunately for me, all I ever hear hear is Kevin Conway's Batman in that.
Yeah. Right. Because there's, there's, you know, when, when he realizes what Tim is going through, you know, when he's hugging him on that panel. Yeah. That is, to me, that's Essence a Batman of, I never want anyone to go through what I went through. That's right. And this happened to my. It, it is not a, it happened to my ward before I adopted him.
This happened to someone under my watch. Yes. Yeah. And that was because Yeah. Tim Drake had the, yeah. Like his parents were still around when for some reason they're letting him get on Bruce Wayne's jet and fly to Asia to be trained by assassins. Yeah. They, that was okay. And the whole Robin series. Well, that was a, that, that was a schoolwork.
You know, you were studying you know, blown up bars and stuff in [00:25:00] Budapest or whatever. That's what, yeah. That's what Robin was doing. No, it was a, that was a that was great. The reason I think I would love to read it for the first time is I remember that mystery had me. Yes. Oh, God had me caught up.
I was so into it. I, I found the reveal a little bit anti-climactic at the end. Mm-hmm. . But the it's, it's not nearly as entertaining now that I know. Right. Yeah. So, but you catch other things when you read it. Do you? I haven't tried, haven't tried. You do. I I've read it probably about 20 times now.
Yeah. Over the, and, and you start, 'cause I got, you know, as it came out, month or month mm-hmm. and me too. You're not putting the clues together. But once you, but like any good mystery, once you know who did it, you start looking, you're like, oh, Gene's always up to something. Now what they did with her later with being possessed by all, that's a bunch of bullshit just in this, in this universe.
Right there, there was, I love the idea of the league. Within the league. Yeah. We've even used that example here at the shop [00:26:00] that makes all the sense in the world that Batman, Superman and probably one of 'em had to go do other things. And you know, there's, there's elongated man over there with the broom cleaning up, you know, whoever's teeth is on the ground that got smacked around.
And you know, the guys that. He just didn't have anything else going on. I mean, at least Green Arrow had his girlfriend hanging out with him. That's true. But yeah. What's Firestorm gonna do? Go study. He's there. He is just happy to be part of everything and still trying to figure out how to turn him solar.
Yeah. That was the other one. That was a different firestorm. Yeah. Yeah's my favorite. Oh, I know, I know. Trying to figure out how to turn salt. Yeah, we're black as night breakfast. Black as night. Okay. Yeah. When death start, when, yeah. Yeah. And we, we actually covered this in the Greenland in podcast. The best is that, that's my favorite iteration of firestorm.
The most interesting one is, is Death storm. Mm-hmm. A a we've all got an opinion, but, you know, 'cause I was gonna ask the question again to, to to you Jason, but you, you, you answered it. Did you follow that one month to month? Very much. Yeah. And it's, it really [00:27:00] is something I remember following that one myself and I.
My wife's not a, not a big comic book fan, although there are certain series that she has been very, very passionate about. She loved preacher and she, she quite liked Sandman as many of us until you kind of got to the end and it's like, God, I never wanted this book to end. Now I really want this book to end
I like, I like a good mystery like that. Yeah. But I gave her that and I said, just kind of, I think I had like the first three or four issues and I was like, you know, I just slid it across to her and she was like, oh yeah, do you have the rest? I'm like, Nope, we're gonna have to wait now. You're in my world.
You're gonna have to wait. You, you know. But no, she really enjoyed it because of that mystery. She thought that that was, and it was, yeah, it was. That was quite . And that was a big seller as well. I remember my local comic shop. Yeah. It was like fourth and fifth printings. And then it was like all the fourth printings [00:28:00] were all like red.
Yep. And then another one has a different color scheme, you know, because both publishers knows what the other one's trying to do. You know, Marvel tried to do identity discs where Give up, you know, they were trying to compete with 'em where it's, oh, this disc has everyone's secret identity. I no one gave a damn about that.
We're not talking about that other than in jest. Right. 20 some odd years later. Yeah. But if you, and if you'd ever, I did not know what Brad Meltzer had, what his style of writing was before he showed up in comics. And now that I do it makes sense that he wrote Danny Crisis the way he did because he was comic geek.
Comic nerd. Yep. But his first, you know, his first book 10th Justice. Mm-hmm. , all the Supreme Court justices were named after the Watchmen. . The last names were Dry Bird. Yeah. We call and and he likes it. When you bring that up, it's like, Hey, I know what that is. And he's, that's nice. Yeah. That's really cool.
Yeah. There, there's been a few mysteries like that that, that really just had me wrap. Hush was one. Mm-hmm. , because you didn't know who Hush [00:29:00] was it throughout that story though? I mean, they're telegraphing. Oh, this random person just showed up here how Bruce's passed, you know? Yeah. Whatever that could be.
There's also a bad guy, but you know, there's I'm sure there's no connection whatsoever between, it's a character we've never heard of, but was in his life all these years. Tommy Elliot. Yeah. And the guy with the bandages on his face both showed up for the first time, but maybe, nah. Did somebody else? No, that one.
And then the, who's the red hood? Do you remember that? Oh yeah. Who's the red hood? So that was good. And I do, but you know, they kind of, they almost telegraphed that a little bit because Jason showed up in Hush sort of, you know, as Clayface, but. It. Yeah. Oh yeah. I thought they were gonna kill him immediately after they, at the end of the storyline.
And when they didn't, that was the bigger surprise. Yeah. And then, then they've done respectable with him. He is a marketable member. The best friend you need, you need a Batman character that could carry a gun like that needed to happen. There needs to be a Batman character [00:30:00] with a gun. That's a podcast right there.
I'll Okay. Put the note down. Well, yeah. Put , add that to the increasingly long list of things we're gonna be here for the next Is that Punisher? Isn't that good? Isn't that, that's Oh, oh, it's a good John Paul valet. Oh, man. No, no, no, no. Anyway but yeah, we'll, we'll circle back to that one for sure. All right.
That's a good, that's a good discussion to have. But yeah. Alright. What's your what's your answer to the question that you posed? Right.
Steven's Top Pick: The Question
---
I've given this a lot of thought. Because, you know, I've got nothing else to do in my life. And hey, comics are our lie. Well, this is true. And I, I, I've got my, my main pick and I have a I have a close second and I have a close third.
Okay. But I'm, I, we , we've gotta put limits on this. I've got my close 23rd and my close 24th one. It doesn't make me mad now, but used to make me mad bitch. So there's gold, silver, bronze, and just keep going. I think [00:31:00] it's paper. I think with the anniversaries, that's where you, you, you kind of get a paper anniversary anyway.
So it would, I it has to be b well, here, I'll, I'll, I'll set it up this way. So I was thinking about this and I thought about the, the number of series came to mind, I think I mentioned in the, in the chat. That I was leaning towards John o Strand's run on Specter. Mm-hmm. . But then I decided no, because I, I've sort of been picking at that off and on over the years.
I'm still trying to chase down that one back issue. 53. Oh, bloody hell, Mr. Terrific. Yeah, because I'm chasing it too, man. I'm, I'm not paying. We go, I'm not paying 50 bucks for it. No, absolutely not. But it's brilliant and, and, and I love it. It's great and it still holds up, but that's, I was like, no, that's, that's not gonna do it.
So it has to be Denny O'Neill and, [00:32:00] and Dennis Cohen. The question, and the reason is, is that was the book I was aware of, Alan Moore's Swamp thing, and I kind of came to the party a little late on that one. . Because I didn't follow his run in issue form Titan Books in the UK was collecting them into trades and they were all in black and white.
Which I've seen the color artwork, actually, I kind of prefer the black and white. Hmm. You really get a sense of Bassett and tot bends inks. It, it, it's a, it's a much more, much more moody, forgive me, a much more moody experience following it in black and white. And I'm sort of remember that sometimes DC would reprint a book or something and they would only do it in black and white.
And they did, I think they, they did it not too long ago with their noir series. Like you can actually get [00:33:00] the killing joke now in black and white. You can get hush in black and white. You can get I think the Azer Risso, broken City, Batman, broken City. I think you can get that in black and white, which I would actually love to see because Eduardo Risso art, I mean, he, he, he does, he does blacks really, really well.
Anyway, I digress. But and I was aware of dark Knight and I was aware of Longo Hunters as well. But there's something about it was, I think it's it's issue 14 of the question, and it's one that's got the cover where Vic Sage has been buried in the ground up to his neck. And you've, 'cause Cohen and, and St.
Kevi were doing the covers. And God, that's a, that's a match made in heaven right there, those two Cohen's pencils and, and Kev on inks. And he's got the American flag. Yes, I remember on his, on for the mosque. And I'm just hooked. And I went back and, and, you know, dug up the, the other issues, the reason why [00:34:00] the, the, the question because that was the series that I think started to educate me about all the things that you can actually do with that with that form of media.
And it's, it's actually, it was kind of a, a gift that kept giving because, I mean, so it's a fantastic story. Denny O'Neill is a, is a great writer. There's only 36 issues and it really does tell one complete story. And there are some moments in there that you really, that really provoke thought There's one issue.
With Green Arrow where they're trying to the question in Green Arrow team up because I think it's actually something like plastic guns or, or, or something like that. [00:35:00] And they're trying to stop these terrorists and they end up, the, the denominate of the story has them, like in the woods in snow and all this kinda stuff.
And while the story is going along, there's like this sub narrative in drawn in, in the parallels about I think it's a dad and his son getting on a plane. And the idea is as you get through this story, you realize when they stop these terrorists that the dad and the son. Are actually going to safely land from that plane Mm.
And move on with the rest of their lives. And then this is, obviously, this is before nine 11 and Yeah. You know, and, and everything else. And then the question, because that character, I find that character endlessly fascinating because he is [00:36:00] he is violent as a person. He's violent and he's been reckless and he's been, he's a shit basically, pardon the language bleep that went out bleep.
So, okay. You know, we've never successfully bleeped any of that. Yeah. That's, that's a, it's, he's a horrible, horrible person. And that's why in that first issue, they kill him. He dies in the first issue and then everything that comes after that is, is rebuilding this man who is. He has a thirst and a passion.
He enjoys the violence, but he's trying to become something more. And I was, I was a teenager when I started reading that, and it clicked, you know, I, I, you know, you got the teenage rage years, you know, and, and, and trying to like, I wanna be more, I, I, this cannot be my life. It becomes very philosophical.
It's an incredibly philosophical book [00:37:00] to read. Just to kind of finish off that green narrow thing though, that that story actually ends because they're trapped in a cabin waiting for like the authorities to arrive. And there's this wonderful last panel where they're talking about where that says something like the question, the green arrow in these terrorists, because they've disarmed them and they, they're all holed up in this cabin.
They spend the rest of the evening discussing good and evil. Hmm. You don't see it, it's, it's not carried in the comic, but it's just this idea that that's, that that is something that they would do, is like, you know, well, we're not going anywhere. They would turn to these terrorists and say, why do you do what you do?
And actually have, try and have a meaningful discussion about why it is that you do what you do. But anyway, the, the, and I wanna ask you a question about that here in just a second. Sure. Yeah. The other thing is, I said it's the gift that kept on giving [00:38:00] Denny O'Neill in the letters page had his recommended reading list, and every month he would put in a book that had either influenced him in writing that story, or he saw that there was a connection, or he just thought, you know, this is something.
And that's why I, as a teenager, that's why I read. Zen and the motorcycle maintenance. Mm-hmm. Of war. Oh gosh. There, there's, there's so many of the the there's a book, it's a it's an, in it's interview with Bruce Lee sort of talking about you know, just like a round table discussion.
And they committed it to, to print sort of talking about, you know, the spirituality of Kung fu. There were Ed McBain novels. Were, were, were recommended. The I'm really struggling this, the research, Dan research. Yeah, I should, I'm actually, I think I've even the fact that you remember this level of detail.
Well, I was just talking [00:39:00] about the fact that I can't remember like anything other than major beats on the story. I think I've actually, so I wanna ask you as your research, I wanna ask you a question. A question, huh. You know, we know that the question was created by Steve Ditko Yes. And that Steve Ditko was quite an interesting character.
Yes. And then in his final years, he created Mr. A. Yep. But he started with the question Yes. And he used and Rand's Objectiveism belief system. Correct? Yes. Do you feel that Denny o' Denny O'Neill carried it without making it too heavy handed? Because I, I need to go back and reread those because, you know, for, for Ditko it was either you were good or you're bad.
And if I let you fall off the building Yes. 'cause you were about to, do you feel that Denny o' need, Denny O'Neill drilled down and purposely kept Vic on that know, [00:40:00] because him, and because when you brought up him and Green Arrow, green Arrow's, the ultimate liberal in the DC universe. Yes. Mm-hmm. Hawkman is the, Yeah, but what would Hawkman, how would Hawkman relate to the question?
Do you see where I'm going with that? Oh, yeah. No, and this because, because the question's a whole different, different path that's go down's, right? It's well, okay, so look, do this history lesson, you're getting kids. Yeah. Well, Hawkman would be like, try again in your next life. Yeah. Well, the, the thing is, is Vic Sage is not afraid to get hurt.
And so the, that's, that's, that's part of the edge that he has is to say, you know, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go for it. But to answer your question, Scott I actually think that that's why he kills him in the first issue. You are not gonna be that question anymore. Ah, you're going to be more reflective.
Okay. So it's not a slight, I, I don't, I don't think it would be a slight against Steve Ditko or anything. It was just an [00:41:00] opportunity to say . , you know, what, in this world and in this medium and, and with, with where we're going, I think, I don't think that that would be sustainable. The, the original version of the question, I don't think that would be sustainable outside of a conspiracy whack chop, which having said that, the Justice Lee cartoon, oh, Jeffrey Combs did an amazing job.
Jeffrey Combs with Jeffrey Combs, and I absolutely adored that. But I, I actually have on my phone and just to, just to kind of add a little credence as to why this is the series that I would so much love to go and revisit. This is a note that's been on my phone since June 18th, 2012. And, and when I got an iPhone, I actually wrote down all 36 books.
And I've kept it as a list and I'm, I've been working my way through this list Wow. For Danny O'Neill's list [00:42:00] for Yeah, yeah. For the last 40 years. And I just haven't really thought about this, but the book I was trying to think of was Steppenwolf by Herman Hess. Oh, yes. And Crime and Punishment by Fido Doki.
But here's the thing, that's 13. The only reason why, I mean, it's British school system being what it was. And if you went to school in England, you know what I'm talking about that I actually look at the question as being, that's actually kind of where I got the, the, the needed education that has fueled me for the rest of my life.
So we are going on almost 40 years now. I have read Zen in the Arts of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert Persik. I've read that every five years over the last 40 years. Hmm. And what I find, and I'm actually, I'm, I'm due to pick it up again. Because I get something completely different out of it the older that I get.
So that series has given me so much joy. I [00:43:00] don't wish that I had read it for the first time now because it hit me at, at the perfect time to give me the time to appreciate it for what it is. But it's that, that eastern philosophy, this, the, that, those contemplations on on what, what is humanity?
Violence it's, it's, it's, it's meant so much to me and it opened up so many doors in terms of the way that I think and the way that I approach things. So it has to be the question. And if you've never read it your don't, don't go into it looking for superhero antics. Because that's not what that book is.
And the, and the more it went on, the less it got away from that. But at the same time, it's a really good comic. Yeah. So it, you know, and and Denny O'Neill, I think it's the best thing Denny O'Neill ever did. One of my regrets will always be that, that I never actually got to meet Denny O'Neil because I've got [00:44:00] so many questions that unfortunately have to remain un , remain unanswered now.
But, but, you know, not to spoil the, the punchline. But in that series Jenny O'Neill gave me my favorite comic book story, which is fables. Which was destroyed. That spilled over three annuals. It was the detective comic annual number one Green Arrow, annual number one, and the question annual number one, and the, which has never been reprinted, but you gave me the poster.
I did you the poster it hanging in my den there and I've got the poster and that's hanging in my hallway. And I believe that volume two of the question omnibus is actually going to have that story in it. I think you're right. I think you're right. Yeah. So it's, it's . It's worth picking it up just for that.
And the point on that story was some questions don't have answers, and if I've got one, . Personal, philosophical, people are listening to this like, oh [00:45:00] geez, that guy is such a bore. Oh, but the accent takes care of it. Yeah. But you know, I mean, it's, everyone loves a good accent. Everyone loves a good accent, but it's still, you know, anyway, I don't care.
It's me. Oh, the Britts listening are bored. Oh, oh. They, they, they started burning Effigies of me about five podcasts back. ? No, it's, it's, it's the women 25 to 45 that are clicking the likes on our Well, anyway. But it that some questions don't have answers, and that's, I'm kind of a control freak and I like to have a full understanding of things in my life, and it's having to accept that I'm not actually gonna know everything that I want to know.
It's just, it's . It. I could talk a whole bloody podcast about this. Maybe I will someday. But yeah, the question absolutely, it's gotta be the question, the runner up very quickly. Semi mystery theater. Mm-hmm. , because I too love a mystery. Yeah. And what Matt Wagner did, and then later with Stephen Siegel was the Just [00:46:00] brilliant.
The four act play every Yeah. Every four issues. Every four issues. You got a new mystery and they're so good. And the, the compendiums DC is reprinting them in the compendium format. If you love a mystery, if you've got any interest in a more mature 'cause. This was, this was Vertigo, a mature view on Golden Age characters.
And I actually you know what? I did pick up issue one of the, the new series, and I was like, no. Okay. It's close. It's close. I can get, I can get into this. I doubt it'll go down some of the, 'cause I mean, some of the, the storylines in, in mystery theater were really quite dark. Well, I mean, I think this, I think these are all just four issue hops, but they, they acknowledged, you know, the tarantulas, the, I mean, I, I like those nods because you didn't have to do any, he, he, he nodded to the, the father that brought you Yeah.
Into this into this run. [00:47:00] Absolutely. So that, that would be my close second, I think. Just because I, I, I love that mystery format. And again, it's, it, and you, you mentioned it, Jason, with, with Kingdom Come, but, but more so with identity crisis, if their mystery is really good, that anticipation mm-hmm.
of, oh, I know I gotta wait 30 more days to get to the next part, you know, and then you get to the end. And it's like, okay, I gotta go back and read the whole start. Yeah. Because I want, I want the immediate, the immediacy of solving that mystery with, with Wesley Dodds and and, and Dion Bel one. But yeah, there you go.
That's, I think I missed an issue of identity crisis along the way. Like , I Oh no, I was picking it up. I was picking it up off the rack. Right, right. And I know this happened with Hush for sure. I was super upset, but I missed there's been a couple of these a lonely place of dying. I, it would cross over with Titans.
I think it was Batman, Titans. Yeah. [00:48:00] There was kind of a tangible, I mean, you could have all, but it was when, well, no, but to have the whole story, part two would be freaking titans. Right. That's where the house was upside down and Batman and night when you're talking, it's like, why is two-face doing it this way, or Right, right.
I, so I, I'd have these, I, I have all these holes that would show up 'cause my shop wouldn't have the freaking story. And I wasn't, these are all times where I was sort of in and out of right comics, so I didn't have a, a consistent pull list. I, I remember I had to the identity crisis one, I hunted the lonely place of dying.
One I didn't get issued two of Lonely plus place of dying for nearly a decade, , after I read that first the, the series. Right. And I finally found it at a convention. I paid like, well, this doesn't sound like a big deal now, but I think it was a $2 comic. I paid $5 for it and I was so pissed that we've all been there now.
Yeah. We've all been there. Yeah. I was [00:49:00] at fan days this weekend and let me, I got some stories to tell about that it was, but yeah, I, I missed one. I had to hunt it. I, I remember going all over town to find the issue that I had missed and finally found somebody that had it for me. I, I, I've got a real beef with any.
Like miniseries, like event series. Yeah. When you find, I mean, if they wanna do little, you know, sort of, accompanying books or series that that's fine, but every so often and there, there, there are a couple of notables infinite Crisis. Did this, final crisis definitely did this. Oh God. The what was the, the Marvel one with fear itself did this where if you, if you pre-order your books and you're like, oh, I'm gonna get issues one through seven of fear itself, but it's only then you go through it and it's like, wait a minute, I need issue 3.1.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I needed issue three. What a and infinite crisis has the thing [00:50:00] where. Wonder Woman ses, and that it's, that that element that happened is carried over in the Wonder Woman book in the Wonder Woman book. Now, thankfully I was reading Wonder Woman at the time, so that was okay. But I remember people, the wr, the R, the Rand and thing, gore War, then the, all the miniseries league.
Yeah. It's like if you, you wanna throw something else in there? I I have no problem. But, but that one was like, if you don't have that Wonder Woman issue, you're actually kind of missing out a big beat in the story. Well, even right now, Batman, Gotham wore with, that's crossing over with Catwoman. Yeah.
Lemme just tell you the number of people who subscribed to Batman versus the number of people who subscribe to Catwoman vastly different. There's, there's a difference. Difference. There's a bit of difference, right? So, and the ones that subscribe for the B and c covers are different than the people that actually read the A covers.
I'm just gonna say that for our Catwoman, that's so, I dunno what it weren't for John pulling that book for me. I would be hosted, there's no way I would've, I would've [00:51:00] thought or known to pull freaking Catwoman. Right. And, or at least certainly by f o c, because by the time the prelude would came out f o C was already closed for freaking Catwoman.
Right. And that's it. So I wouldn't have known at all. So there's so many people that just don't have, that aren't able to get, it's actually the first issue. I think the first, the first part of Gotham War is in Catwoman. It's the Catwoman Yeah, it's the Catwoman story. Yeah. Well, they, yeah. So they've got like an Alpha and Omega issue on thing going Yeah.
On the end. The bookends. But then, yeah, you've got Batman, you've got Catwoman, and then you've got these two issues with Red Hood. And so I actually didn't even acknowledge that. And then it was like, oh, shoot. I, I guess I, and actually, yeah, they are kind of important to the narrative because of have the Batman is doing with Red Hood, so it's like, oh, oh crap.
John usually pulls all that stuff for me. I He didn't get me the red hood. Oh, no. You, you kind of, yeah. I hate to say, I hate to say I'm not caught [00:52:00] up, but you kind of need that. But it's I mentioned Final Crisis and there's, there's a, there's a , there's a podcast rule about Final Crisis because that, that one takes some work.
Toand, I can talk about Final Crisis. Oh, it's, it's, you know, I, yeah. On the new solicitations for DC they're doing an absolute edition of Final Crisis. Yeah. And I'm very pleased to note that in addition to Final Crisis, you're actually gonna get the Superman Mini and couple of the other books and stuff that are actually so bloody critical to to that story because I've got the collection of Final CR and it's just those issues.
Yeah, I, I mean, look, I, there's some gaps. I, I love Grant Morrison. I, I'm a huge fan. I'll fo he's one of those creators. I will follow him on anything. But that one was the one where I was like, why di Do you think that's the one where he started growing his own mushrooms or was he still using a dealer?
Because there's, there's, I don't, there's some standing Mind [00:53:00] that book, that book in in particular. I just can't, and it might be that I didn't read The Minis. Maybe I've been missing a whole thing. I, I just remembering I don't, this thing makes no sense to me. Yeah. I, I, I don't understand what this is. I read the, I read the Minis and it's still the, the one that I, I mean, the Legion of Superheroes was the only one that I really Right.
But I think, and I'm. We've gone way off topic this. That's what we did. This is a bonus episode, but to me, final crisis was two things for Grant Morrison. He wanted to tell his own Jack Kirby new God story. Correct? Yeah. And if you weren't familiar with that, or if you didn't read the original, you had no idea what was going on and he wanted to bring Barry back because there was nothing else of relevance.
Right. That really, 'cause I mean, Turin's not Darkside anymore. And I've always g given credit to DC is that you never heard Barry was coming back, right? Yeah, I, I remember Killer covers that. That's a great cover. Oh, yeah. You know, they've got the Calvin Ginger Jones, they've got the Calvin, you know, [00:54:00] variant of Superman in there.
Mm-hmm. . And we, we've enjoyed that back issue when it comes in here. But , you know, for, for something as . You know, we're bringing Ollie back. He got his own, you know, he got his own mini series leaving that we got How back he got on that? Oh, hey, Barry's back. What? Yeah, he is over there, right? Is that really Barry?
Yeah, it's Barry. Yeah. The guy in Vibration in the corner and, and, and, you know, no, you know, it took Jeff Johns and Rebirth for Flash. Right. Just straight up. But I mean, it really, if you just read that story first, the comeback, why something happen. Yeah. Crisis with the, the overweight. You know that guy over there?
Yeah. What happened? .
Thanks for listening to the multi-verse podcast. If you'd like to visit us in person at the multi-verse, we are in Hurst, Texas. If you'd like to visit us online, we're at www dot the multi-verse dot com. Please do me a favor. Make sure you subscribe. Make sure you write a review on any of the places that you listen. I really helps us quite a bit. So give us some stars, give us some reviews.[00:55:00] , we can't wait to see you next time. Thanks
